Other arguments expressed by other people (see also discussion below) supporting the validity of a high KE are:
Isokratema stays on ZW (BOY of supposed Second Mode throughout the relevant part
of the piece. If it was Second Mode, then ison would move to PA (DI of supposed
Second Mode).
There is no fthora or other sign of Chromaticism in the Old Notation manuscript (see below for a sample).
The soft chromatic fthora is placed at different places by different publishers
of the piece in the New Notation. (see below for samples)
The same fthora appears in other pieces of Barys mode (like Anothen Oi Profitai
) but no Patriarchal psaltis does a low KE there, even those that do a low KE in "Ton Despotin". See relevant page on Analogion about Anothen ([html]).
The same fthora is placed in other pieces of Barys mode (like in the Anthologia
of Petros Ephesios) where it clearly has nothing to do with affecting KE and it
is obviously placed to denote a high GA. The issue has been studied and presented
by Lykourgos Angelopoulos in the introduction of that Anthologia, republished a
few years ago by the Greek Byzantine Choir.
Here is what Simon Karas wrote in support of the traditional chanting of this piece:
Scan from Karas' theory book (in Greek) [pdf,
284 Kb]. Simon Karas' two volume Theoretikon is available for sale at major bookstores (see Buy section).
And here is what Thrasyvoulos Stanitsas had to say (in Greek) about it, disagreeing with Karas and supporting the non-traditional view:
This recording is from an interview of Stanitsas given to Christos Tsiounis in 1987 [mp3, 820 Kb]
The whole interview has been published by Christos Tsiounis and is available at major bookstores (see Buy section).
Μουσικά Κείμενα / Scores
Old Notation
Antonios Lambadarios' score (from book "Byzantine Ekklesiastike Mousike kai Ymnodia"
by Fillipos Oikonomou) [jpg, 1.26 Mb]
New Classical Notation
Classical score from "Neon Mousikon Egcheiridion" by Dimitrios Protopsaltis [zip,
220 Kb]
Simon Karas' score (with his special signs) [pdf,
284 Kb]
New Analytic Notation
[pending]
Ηχογραφήσεις / Recordings
Patriarchal style
Iakovos Nafpliotis (1910s)
[mp3] (offered by
G. K. Michalakis)
Konstantinos Pringos
(1950s) [rm]
(from cmkon.org)
Basileios Nikolaidis
[mp3] (broadcasted
by L. Angelopoulos and G. Kyriakakis)
Leonidas Asteris
(1990s) [rm]
(from users.hol.gr)
Constantinopolitan
style
Nikolaos Nikolaidis [wma]
(broadcasted by S. Kissas)
Chios style
Leonidas Sfikas [wma] (recorded off L. Angelopoulos' radio broadcast by G. Monostori)
Thessaloniki style
Harilaos Taliadoros (1980-90s) [rm]
(from ieropsaltis.com)
Hrysanthos Theodosopoulos
(1980s) [wma]
(offered by S. Gugushvili)
Angelos Kounas
(Pyrgos, Ilia, 2005) [mp3] (private
recording)
Hatzis Staikosrm]
(from ieropsaltis.com)
Eleftherios Eleftheriadis[mp3]
(from ieropsaltis.com)
Athanasios Bourlis[ra]
(from ieropsaltis.com)
Athonite style
Athonite Fathers (Millenium of Xenophontos Monastery, 1998) [mp3]
(from www.inathos.gr)
Academic (University) Style
Maistores of Psaltic Art
(director Achilleus Chaldaiakis) [wma]
(offered by B. Zacharis. Live recording from the 2nd Psaltic conference (Athens, 2003). "Eis polla" is done by the choir
of Herakleion chanters)
Simon Karas style
style
Greek Byzantine Choir (director Lykourgos Angelopoulos) [wma] (offered by S. Gugushvili)
Σύγκριση εκτέλεσης του ΚΕ / Comparison of interpretations of the controversial interval
Iakovos Nafpliotis's KE is quite high (compared to what most chanters do today)
[mp3] (1910s)
Konstantinos Pringos seems to be almost identical to Nafpliotis [mp3]
(1950s)
| Thrasyvoulos Stanitsas has inconsistently performed the controversial interval (see discussion below) during his last years at the Patriarchate. Compare the following excerpts: Initially, in his oldest recordings, he is very close, if not identical to the older versions by Pringos/Nafpliotis [mp3] (1961, Patriarchate) Two years later KE is much lower [mp3] (Sunday of Orthodoxy, 1963, Patriarchate) And even lower here [mp3] (from cmkon.org) However, in "Anothen oi Profetai" ([html]) which is composed in the same mode he clearly does KE higher than all the above (even though he puts a chromatic fthora in his version of the text (see his score [jpg] from cmkon.org) absent in the classical. Here is the recording [mp3]. Also worth noting here is that Konstantinos' Anthologia has the fthora from the first sign. |
Stanitsas' successor Basileios Nikolaidis' KE is somewhere in the middle [mp3]
(1980)
The current protopsaltis Leonidas Asteris
seems to be different from all the above, closer to the low KE done by Stanitsas
in his last example [mp3]
(2001)
Manolis Xatzimarkos's version of
the same interval is closer to Nafpliotis/Pringos [mp3]
(1963)
Harilaos Taliadoros seems to be doing
KE even higher than Nafpliotis [mp3]
(1980s) Some versions interpret the "vareia" sign and do ZW-KE-ZW-DI where KE is
even higher.
This is a live recording of Konstantinos
Bilalis. [mp3]
(2003) (broadcasted on ecclesia.gr radio)
The same really small interval is performed
by the Athonite Fathers at Xenophontos Millenium
Vigil. [mp3]
(1998)
Georgios K. Michalakis, also does a high
KE, [mp3] (2005)
even higher after interpreting vareia [mp3]
(2005)
Angelos Kounas, a student
of Taliadoros, follows Taliadoros and does a high KE. [mp3]
(2005)
Chrysanthos Theodosopoulos. Unlike
his teacher Pringos and "neighbour" Taliadoros he does a low KE.
[wma]
Athanasios Bourlis, unlike his teacher (Taliadoros), does a very low KE. [mp3]
Selected topics from the Typikon and
byzantinechant discussion groups.
D. Koubaroulis: Talking about S. Karas,
there has been some controversy about his views on the mathema "Ton Despotin kai
Arxierea". S. Karas, as I've been told, heard one chanter (L. Sfikas of Chios, Greece)
singing it with KE-sharp when the melody descended to low-DI and deduced that this
mode is not Varys Diatonikos (and not 2nd mode as it appears to be written in the
modern editions) but what he called Soft Chromatic Legetos (4th mode) (the difference
in the scale between that and Barys diatonikos being 2 cents/moria).
I. Arvanitis: He did not state it exactly like this. He said that it
is a soft chromatic branch of Varys with intervals similar to what he calls Soft
chromatic Legetos, meaning the mode in which the Apolytikia and Kathismata of the
4th mode are sung and which, according to him must be different, ie. with different
intervals (4chord: 8-14-8), from the Second mode (7 1/2-16-6 1/2) and from Plagios
Deuteros Eirmologikos(hard chromatic according to him:5 1/2-18-6 1/2). All this
modes have in the musical books the Phthora of Deuteros. But this distinction by
Karas in the intervals of these modes is not correct and contradicts the current
praxis (and according to my research it was also in contradiction with the older
praxis and theory and finds no justification in the whole history of B. Chant) and
I know from personal experience that it was not exactly reflected in his actual
singing and is not exactly reflected in the singing of Angelopoulos and the rest,
because for various reasons it is very difficult or impossible. Despite of this,
they insist that all the chanters "must be careful and change their singing" according
to these theories (see eg. writings by Angelopoulos in programms of Megaron Athinon
or booklet of G. Remoundos CD 'Oxeia, Vareia, Petasti) while they are not able to
sing this difference practically. What happened actually with Karas singing, is
that he sung these three modes in the same manner, using the intervals 7 1/2-16-6
1/2, while the rest psaltai sing them all in the same manner using the intervals
8-14-8. The differentiation of Deuteros from 8-14-8 came from arbitrary presuppositions
of Karas (I'll elaborate it another time maybe). So, he states that this branch
of Varys must not be confused with Deuteros and consequently the phthora of Deuteros
must here denote the intervals 8-14-8 (other than in Deut. acc. to him) and that
Ke must be sung sharp. I agree with him in this matter. although I would formulate
it and the relation with "chromatic Legetos" in a different manner (this has to
do with the whole subject of the "Epeisakta", for which I don't agree with him,
but it would lead me too far now to describe it). I'll explain below the reasons
of my agreement.
D. Koubaroulis: Unfortunately S. Karas in
his book didn't justify how he came to this realisation, he doesn't even mention
that he heard anybody performing it like that. I. Arvanitis:
This is a general problem with Karas writings. He does not always mention
his sources, although he may be right in his remarks on a certain issue. But it
this way his results can easily be doubted. Through my paleographic research I have
been able to find the evidence and justification of what is correct, but, of course,
to find also his mistakes.
D. Koubaroulis:
Th. Stanitsas strongly opposed Karas' view but he also didn't give any explanation
other as "that's how it's chanted by us". (interview to Christos Tsiounis, 1985)
Gianni (Arvaniti), I recall that you have done a recording of this hymn with presumably
the 'correct' intervals. Could you (or other people on this list that know more
than me about this) shed some light on this issue? Which mode is "Ton Despotin"
after all, and what does the chromatic fthora mean in the beginning of the piece?
Do you agree with S. Karas on this topic? Based on which evidence can we say that
"the fthora of second mode here does not mean second mode"?
I. Arvanitis: In the manuscript Metochion Panagiou Taphou 704 (autographon
of Chourmouzios with exegesei of Orthros) on f. 264r, Chourmouzios writes the exegesis
of "Ton Despotin". He places NO phthora. There is also no phthora in the old notation
of this peace. From these facts we can deduce that probably the placement of the
phthora in the New notation is rather a matter of performance and not a purposed
addition of the composer, in the sense that maybe one can sing a Ga natural or a
Ga sharp (an existing issue in Varys). But when one sings Ga sharp, then it is often
unavoidable not to lower Vou slightly. So, a soft chromatic 4chord appears. So,
we can say that the phthora here is mainly an indication for Ga sharp. But if we
had only this exegesis by Chourmouzios, without the phthora, we would sing maybe
Ga natural or, knowing that Ga can be also sharp, Ga sharp. But surely we would
sing Ke sharp. That this must be the case can be apparent also with other similar
formulas which can be found written down with or without the phthora: eg. one can
find the first phrase of "Anothen oi Profitai" without a phthora at the beginning
(so one sings Ke sharp) and the phthora is placed later in the formula. But these
are more or less stereotyped formulas, they cannot have entirely different ways
of performance. So, with or without the phthora, Ke sharp. The whole thing is similar
to the Dynamis by N. Kamarados. It is written in 2nd mode and despite this when
the melos descends in Pa-Ni, a diatonic phthora is placed and we sing Pa sharp.
Why had Kamarados the need to place this phthora? Would it not be better and in
accordance with 2nd mode to leave it in its scale? The answer is that this Dynamis,
as you probably know, is in fact the composition of Petros Ephesios which is in
the Varys mode _with the phthora of Deuteros_. So, this proves, I think, that we
must sing Ke sharp. (On the other hand, I heard the Cheroubikon in the _2nd_ Mode
by Phokaeus sung by Fr Georgios Tsetsis and at the "my(stikos)"(notes Vou-Pa-Ni-Bou)
he sung Pa sharp! So, is a Pa sharp can be sung in 2nd mode, why not a Ke sharp
in Varys!)
D. Koubaroulis: If Simon Karas
is 'correct' then the Patriarchal chanters are 'wrong'. One might argue that based
on Karas' theory, the praxis of the Patriarchal chanters should change accordingly.
I. Arvanitis: I described above my arguments.
Let's say that I am completely right. Nevertheless, maybe I cannot persuade everyone
and I don't want to fight against people or divide them in defenders and opponents
for a mere Yphesis or Diesis (I say this because people usually react to what is
new for them and when they need to change something). If the psaltai of the patriarchate
don't consider themselves and their tradition faultless (though venerable), they
could accept a series of scientific arguments on this matter and change; it's only
for a Diesis; it's easy. It depends on them.
D. Koubaroulis:
Others might argue that what has been done has been done and our current theory
should be modified to reflect current practice. I.e. let's say that "Ton Despotin"
starts with 2nd mode "because that's how it is chanted in the Patriarchate" (or
elsewhere depending what the point of reference it). What is your (and the others
view on this?).
I. Arvanitis: When we are
trying to solve problems, I think we cannot argue with "because that's how it is
chanted in the Patriarchate" or "because Karas, or Arvanitis, told this". This leads
nowhere. We need real arguments. When the arguments result to a need of a change
in the praxis, we must be careful: Is this change easy to be done? In the case of
"Ton Despotin" I think it is easy for all the psaltai, if accepted of course. In
other cases it is not so easy. Eg. even if Karas were right that PL. 2nd Heirmologic
must be sung hard chromatic, this change would be impossible to happen. So, in this
case (if Karas were maybe right for older times but the current praxis of all the
psaltai is different) we should modify our current theory and say: "Till, say, the
17th cent. Pl. 2nd Heirmologic was sung hard chromatic as reflected in this and
this evidence etc., BUT it seems that probably little by little it changed and at
least since,say, the 19th cent., as it is reflected in this and this of this century,
it is sung in soft chromatic". This we would write in a full Theoretikon. In a Theoretikon
for students use, we could write simply that it is soft chromatic. But in order
to understand and sing older pieces we would probably know the whole story. Another
possibility of this hypothetical case would be that there could exist a fairly large
group of psaltai who sing (by tradition) pl.2nd Heirm. as hard chromatic, while
the rest sing it soft chromatic. Then our theory should include both cases. So,
insisting and sticking on "because that's how it is chanted in the Patriarchate"
would be sterile, insisting and sticking on a Diesis would be injust.
Alexander said that Karas' theory
was that the modulant that appears on Pa of these Protovarys pieces was actually
the Naos modulant, for when the melody hangs around Ga.
I. Arvanitis: The modulant on Pa in Varys,
ie. a Deuteros phthora on Pa (or on Zo,meaning the same thing) is one thing and
the presense of Naos in Varys is another thing. Alex, although not so specific,
has told you something correct. What is now this Deuteros phthora on Pa according
to Karas ? He says that the phthora does not indicate here a usual Deuteros but
a SOFT CHROMATIC LEGETOS. Why does he say this? Because he believes that the intervals
of Deuteros are different from the intervals of Soft Chromatic Legetos. According
to Karas, a Deuteros phthora on pa would give the intervals : Zo 6 1/2 Ni 12 Pa
7 1/2 Bou 16 Ga 6 1/2 Di. while soft chromatic legetos (in this position) is Zo
8 Ni 12 Pa 8 Vou14 Ga 8 Di. That is, according to him, if it were Deuteros, the
tonic of Varys would be slightly changed. I don't agree with his interval theory
(I believe that the Deuteros tetrachord is 8-14-8) but I believe he is right here
because one can find the same formulas also without a phthora, the singing of the
correct intervals being left to the singer. This indicates that this chromatization
is here not a purposed act of the composer but a small variation of the usual varys
intervals, a variation that certainly cannot affect its tonic (eg. in 'Ton Despotin'',
Chourmouzios does not place a phthora at all in his transcription in Cod. Athens,
Metochion Panagiou Taphou, 704. In his ''Tameion Anthologias'', he places a phthora
only on the syllables -spooootin kai archi-, while in the transcription we usually
sing (by Gregorios) all the words -Ton Despotin kai Archierea- have a phthora. In
''Anothen oi Prophitai'', Chourmouzios places a phthora not from the very beginning
but only when reaching the words -se prokathgeilan- .One can find many more examples.
This could even indicate that these formulas could have two ways of performance
at these times : one with Ga natural and another with Ga sharp). But there is also
another difference between the Deuteros and the soft chromatic legetos approach
: in the first phrase of ''Anothen'' eg, one would sing a Ke flat, if it were Deuteros
and a Ke sharp, if it is soft chromatic legetos (ie. a slightly varied Varys). But
if one would sing the transcription by Chourmouzios, there is no phthora there ;
one would sing definitely Ke sharp. I think all this verifies the view of Karas
(although, as I've said, I don't agree with his Deuteros intervals). The majority
of the singers sings Ke flat, but the Ke sharp Karas suggests was sung, and paid
special attenstion by his teacher Georgios Vinakis, a pupil of Georgios Redaistinos,
by the late singer Leonidas Sfikas. What is now the role of Naos in Varys ? I've
written that the basic form of this mode is 'Protovarys' that is a blending of the
Varys (represented by phrases moving around and cadencing on Zo) and Protos (represented
by phrases cadencong on Pa or on other dominant notes of Protos). These chants can
begin from the region of Zo and consequently show the phrases of Protos (this could
be called 'simple varys') or vice versa (this could be called the'mainly protovarys').
But Protos is known as Heirmologic Protos and as Sticheraric Protos. Both have Pa
as their tonic, but the first has Di and the second Ga as their dominant notes.
So, we can have two kinds of Protovarys : one with Di as dominant note (this is
usually called 'Pentaphonos varys' because Di is five steps higher from Zo. Example:
the makarismoi found in the Anastasimatarion) and another with Ga as dominant note
( this is usually called 'Tetraphonos varys' because Ga is five steps higher from
Zo. Example: the Doxology by Iakovos Protopsaltis). But we have spoken about the
sticheraric protos that is Naos. If the flattening of Di is permanent,the Naos is
chromatic and its use with the Varys gives the so call ed 'maqam Beste-Nigar' whose
scale and melodic behavior was the model for many compositions on the 19th cent.
I would like to mention that in
the Arabic "ton despotin" of
, a fthora of Plagal of the second mode
is placed on Pa !! so Mitri El Murr is emphasizing on flatting the Vou by using
a hard-chromatic. However, I noticed that the "Ton Despotin" ends on Ga. I heard
from a psalter that there is some tradition for this particular "ton despotin" on
Grave tone to be ended with 3rd tone. Is that correct ? Why does it resolve on Ga
?
I. Arvanitis: Although no one would characterize
today ''Ton Despotin'' as belonging to '' Protovarys'', the manuscripts would indicate
that it belongs to it. All the old tradition knows a Varys which is the mediant
(in Greek : mesos, ie two steps lower) of Protos. This holds true for the Varys
of the old sticherarion [ there one can find phrases in Exo Protos (from Ke) followed
by phrases ending on Ga) as well as for the Varys of Papadike [phrases of Eso Protos
(from Pa) followed by phrases ending on Zo]. This blending of Varys with Protos
is so dominant and characteristic in older chants, that their _final_ cadence is
(in the case of Varys from Zo) always on Pa. If you see the authentic (not abbreviated)
form of ''Anothen oi Profitai'', you can see that it ends on Pa. Even the relatively
late Cherouvikon for weekdays and the Koinonikon ''Aineite'' in Varys, both by Petros
Lampadarios (they can be found almost in every book for the Liturgy), end on Pa.
On the other hand, old chants are not so standardized, as it concerns their final
cadences. In older times, many chants had a final cadence one step higher than their
tonic, to give the tone for the deacon. Or chants having Ga as their tonic used
to end on Ni (eg. some 'Dochai', ie Prokeimena). This is something so frequent,
that one cannot take it as an error. Or, the so well known Christmas and Epiphany
Kontakia : as one can see in the manuscripts, their melodies have not appreciably
changed from medieval times. They are like fossils. They start from other modes
and end on Pl. Fourth. This was not something strange for medieval standards. The
stichera of the Fourth mode could end on the tonic of Fourth mode or on the tonic
of the Pl. Fourth. And in general, the stichera (and the heirmoi) of every authentic
mode could end on both the authentic or the plagal mode (something like that was
also true for the Gregorian Chant, I think). So, the fact that ''Ton Despotin''
ends on Ga must not look so strange. It's certainly a peculiarity, and I 've not
maybe explained it, but we must admit that these things happen in old chants. Maybe
a liturgical reason forced the composer to make an ending on Ga. What one must learn
from what I have written above, is that we must not correct the older chants to
force them to conform to our standards without examining their history. One can
make a sychronic study of Byzantine Chant to _describe_ it in the best way. But
if one wants to suggest corrections and canonize the singing of the chants, one
must first study it in a diachronic way. That is what I'm trying to do.